Celica ST205 FYI and WRX comparison

[Vr4much?]

I just thought I'd make a new thread about the ST205 in case anyone else decides to paddle up the same shitcreek that I did. Having a 94 ST205 2 years ago I knew that if I ever decided to buy another one it would HAVE to have coilovers and reasonably low mileage. So I got a 96 super clean with maintenance records, 103k, 1 owner, and of course tein coilovers. Knowing that it has non-entry level coilovers I figured there is a low chance that they are blown. So I got the car, it's super clean, undercarriage looks like my friend's 2009 and the front coilovers are blown. Managed to find the only set of oem struts in CANADA that were reasonably priced, put them on, finished the rest of compliance for OOP, gave for OPI, and the following items failed.

Front struts (light insert play)
Front Fig 8ts
Didn't fail, but also suspect carrier/spherical bearings.

Getting to the point....

99.9% of the shops that do out of province don't know to to check for play in the figure 8ts, lower control arms and the banana arms will most likely pass OOP with these items being worn out. I got these stats from Alberta owners that bought their cars from local JDM dealers. I'd say about 90% of the ST205s sold here in Canada don't have any suspensions maintenance.

You HAVE TO get the super struts, fig 8ts, lower control arms, banana arms from the UK and the prices RAPE!

front struts -300 a piece before shipping
fig 8ts 110 a piece before shipping
lower control arms 700 a piece before shipping
banana arms - 300 a piece before shipping

The ST205 is a very good car, but the suspension is probably the worst design ever made, It's complex and stupidly unreliable/expensive. UK owners see an average of 70k before the struts and fig8ts fail.

If you do decide to get a ST205 over say a WRX, please make sure all or at least the struts and the fig8ts have been changed or else you can expect to add another $2000 before labor to your total car price. If you are purchasing an ST205 with approx 100k and there is no evidence of suspension maintenance, you can pretty much expect the struts/fig8ts to fail within 20k.


ST205 vs WRX 94-96

IMO, the ST205 is better in these areas:
The engine is known to be a lot more durable than the EJ20.
You'll never get a cold start issue or anything hesitation/misfire GC8 BS related.
The tranny is not likely to develop gear grind like 50% of the GC8 in Canada.
The interior is a bit more luxurious which and feels nicer during long trips.
It looks better to some extent.

/end rant

[koalorka]

Great car no doubt, but maintenance and ease of access seem to have been an afterthought for the designers and engineers.

[Speed Stick]

I had a st185 with siezed struts and a bad clutch. Thing was a nightmare. No suspension options that were affordable and the amount of labour to change the clutch was stupid.

IMO the wrx is a way better as its easier to work on. Ignition coils are a minor expense and only takes a few hours. Also it's a lot lighter. Cold starts aren't a big deal either, just a bit annoying. Parts availability and Subaru community is so large that there's always someone to help too.

But ya the 3sgte and it's tranny are a lot tougher for sure.

[Vr4much?]

I had a st185 with siezed struts and a bad clutch. Thing was a nightmare. No suspension options that were affordable and the amount of labour to change the clutch was stupid.

IMO the wrx is a way better as its easier to work on. Ignition coils are a minor expense and only takes a few hours. Also it's a lot lighter. Cold starts aren't a big deal either, just a bit annoying. Parts availability and Subaru community is so large that there's always someone to help too.

But ya the 3sgte and it's tranny are a lot tougher for sure.

The only coilover options available for the st205 are TEIN and TRD which are 2700 prior to shippping/customs etc.. You can get k-sport,BC,D2 coilovers for 1000 or so, but you will have to do a bunch of welding cause it's a superstrut design..

I don't really care about the cold start anymore as it always starts on the second try. WRX is a win win situation, they are even priced less than the ST205 at auctions and require minor oop compliance work, anyone know whats the deal with this??

[Kingsoup]

I'm a ST205 crack addict. Having had 5 Supras and a non turbo Celica, I wanted it so bad, its amazing looking in person. On paper it beats the WRX in lots of areas, the SuperStrut gives camber curve you just can't touch on the WRX struts, it comes with 4 piston calipers and a Torsen Rear differential vs the Fluid in the WRX. The tranny is much stronger and can do 320hp crank on the CT20b with mild upgrades.

Nicer interior mostly, but what happened? Its just a nightmare. I met a guy at the Calgary dragstrip this year who told me of his ST205 nightmares as well. The suspension is nightmare expensive, the engine is really crammed in there and difficult to work on (WRX is best car ever) (ok 70's Carb Chev 1/2 ton is the best lets be honest ) It has lots of great parts they didnt really sell here, like intercooler fluid pumps, that will be impossible to fix when it breaks I can imagine.

I read every review I could ever find, I still miss having it, but part of the point of these low cost, JDM import things is to have fun on the cheapish, ST205 just doesn't tick those boxes.

Alas I still miss it, its so beautiful in person, was really more of the kinda car I wanted then the WRX, but in reality, well its just not practical enough.

[rimbasher57]

Agree, the ST205 and ST185 are nice looking cars. Nicer interiors with a more luxurious feel. That said, changing a fuel filter requires gummy arms and the removal of a wheel! They are also very expensive to mod. Not to mention slow...

I miss my 185 RC, but not that much.

[blessthekellen]

vs.




I absolutely miss my ST205. But I still love my rex. I had been a Toyota owner for the past 5 years, (swapped 92 celica gts, 86 celica, 90 celica ST185, then the 205) but now I see myself a Subaru owner for a very long time due to practicality.

Suspension was the big scare on the 205, but I did not have to replace any of it due to only putting 10,000 kms on the car during ownership.

Interior was far more superior in the 205 over the wrx.

Turbo lag was non-existent in the 205. Car seemed much quicker than the wrx, much more peppy, which was strange thinking the car was much heavier than the wrx is.

Brakes are far superior on the 205 as well. As stated the 4 pots were outstanding.

Transmission on the 205 wins as well. Things are capable of handling basically as much HP as you need. I know a select owner from the stating pushing 1000whp on his stock transmission. Leaves the GC8 transmission in the dust.

Engine wise. EJ20G is definitely easier to work on. But as far as reliability goes, it goes either way honestly. GC8 hits 300whp very reliable with Rob's tune, anything over this power, not only is the transmission in question, but what else might go wrong with these engines. 300whp is a sweet point for these which is much more than needed for most fanatics.
These 3rd gen 3SGTE's were notorious for ringland failure. 300bhp was the point of no return for these cars. Piston #3 was always the one in question on these motors IIRC. Many many many UK owners on their gt4.oc have had to rebuild these motors due to ringland failure.


All in all. Its a toss up. Celica was a fricken amazing rally machine, and you definitely had that feel when driving the car. The GC8 is a street car best put. But does its job well.

[Vr4much?]

vs.




I absolutely miss my ST205. But I still love my rex. I had been a Toyota owner for the past 5 years, (swapped 92 celica gts, 86 celica, 90 celica ST185, then the 205) but now I see myself a Subaru owner for a very long time due to practicality.

Suspension was the big scare on the 205, but I did not have to replace any of it due to only putting 10,000 kms on the car during ownership.

Interior was far more superior in the 205 over the wrx.

Turbo lag was non-existent in the 205. Car seemed much quicker than the wrx, much more peppy, which was strange thinking the car was much heavier than the wrx is.

Brakes are far superior on the 205 as well. As stated the 4 pots were outstanding.

Transmission on the 205 wins as well. Things are capable of handling basically as much HP as you need. I know a select owner from the stating pushing 1000whp on his stock transmission. Leaves the GC8 transmission in the dust.

Engine wise. EJ20G is definitely easier to work on. But as far as reliability goes, it goes either way honestly. GC8 hits 300whp very reliable with Rob's tune, anything over this power, not only is the transmission in question, but what else might go wrong with these engines. 300whp is a sweet point for these which is much more than needed for most fanatics.
These 3rd gen 3SGTE's were notorious for ringland failure. 300bhp was the point of no return for these cars. Piston #3 was always the one in question on these motors IIRC. Many many many UK owners on their gt4.oc have had to rebuild these motors due to ringland failure.


All in all. Its a toss up. Celica was a fricken amazing rally machine, and you definitely had that feel when driving the car. The GC8 is a street car best put. But does its job well.

Yea I totally forgot to mention that the front and rear brakes are bigger than a 2g GTO(which are HUGE)

That's interesting that you find the celica faster than your v2 sti... Did you have any mods on the celica?

[Vr4much?]

Agree, the ST205 and ST185 are nice looking cars. Nicer interiors with a more luxurious feel. That said, changing a fuel filter requires gummy arms and the removal of a wheel! They are also very expensive to mod. Not to mention slow...

I miss my 185 RC, but not that much.

Yes lol! I remember it took me an hour to change the fuel filter on my 94 and I needed my brothers help to get it loose.

[Vr4much?]

Gotta say, now that all the suspension components are maintained handling feels so much better than the WRX despite being 400-500lb heavier.