Brz

[Braden]

I wouldn't really call the brz/frs engine lively (esp. compared to a s2k). I'd more compare it to a civic.

New vs. used is not really a factor because there has been no appreciable progression in automotive technology in the last 20 years.

Don't think I can agree with this.

And I'll also have to disagree with the wrx/sti being garbage since early 2000s, the 11/12 sti and wrx even in usdm trim are amazing cars. And the 04—07 remain many, many people's favorite for multiple reasons. A gc8 without a full modern drivetrain swap, and serious suspension work just can't compare to a GD/GR. Sure it is lighter, doesn't mean it's quicker around corners or feels better.

Despite me bugging R all the time about the frs's 1/4 mile time in the 16's I can appreciate the car for what it is.. I'm getting sick of the "old car" feeling, I want something light, but without an interior stuck in the late 80's/early 90's. These old jdm's just have a feeling that can't compare to a new(er) car, I want this new car feeling in a light platform, even though the frs/brz isn't what I want, I'm hoping it will push other automakers to make something that I do want.

[FtGF]

How is it NOT a copy of the S2000?

Small, lightweight RWD roadster with a lively 2.0 litre NA motor. You can easily outfit the S2000 with a hardtop if you want to debate the nomenclature of a roadster vs. cabrio or whatever you want to call it.

And the Honda still has the better motor.

New vs. used is not really a factor because there has been no appreciable progression in automotive technology in the last 20 years.

s2000 was around the price of an STI when new. Not affordable to most. Not comparable. BRZ/FRS is the spiritual successor to the AE86 and Subaru has been making 2.0 engines for years. Also the BRZ has already hit a 0-60 time of 6.4-6.3 seconds which is around the same as the original s2000. Not too shabby for 40 less hp at almost a 1000rpm less. Too bad modern weight ruins it. This car would absolutely fly at an ITR weight level.

I'm not an engineer but I bet that last statement is very wrong. ECU advancements and tuning capabilities alone is a huge advancement to cars driveabilty, power, fuel efficiency. Direct and port injection also huge which the BRZ has and the S2000 does not. Also variable valve timing on both exhaust and intake side have huge power benefits both cars have that. Among many more things I have missed.

Not WRC tested......

Actually it was. For one year. Also its still used by smaller teams. Subaru factory teams still run race cars for road racing as well. So car has been developed and it's the fastest STI to date.

[koalorka]

I'm not an engineer but I bet that last statement is very wrong. ECU advancements and tuning capabilities alone is a huge advancement to cars driveabilty, power, fuel efficiency. Direct and port injection also huge which the BRZ has and the S2000 does not. Also variable valve timing on both exhaust and intake side have huge power benefits both cars have that. Among many more things I have missed.

Electronic valve manipulation or what Subaru calls AVCS has been around for close to 30 years. Honda realized in the 1980s that turbocharging a motor is a less than optimal means of increasing its output. So the implementation of this 20 years after the first commercial Honda motors and calling it innovative is laughable.

Direct injection was used extensively in high-performance aviation engines in WW2 and in modern fuel-injected cars since 1996. Hardly a new thing.

Electronic engine management likewise hasn't undergone any major changes since the 1990s.

All of that is just marketing propaganda and only the drooling fanboys are eating it up.

[FtGF]

Who called anything innovative? Its very improved and advanced. Yup cars dont make more power arent more fuel effecient and arent easier to tune. You are absolutely right. Terrible argument. Planes in ww2 lol ok you win......

Sticking to honda since you like them so much compare what a k20 vs a b18 is. K20 is way superior. Power potential is huge with only .2 litre increase. Same with ej207 vs the very limited G and K. Look at the new 5.0 shelbys at 600hp. Engines and ecus have gotten way better how ever you look at it or as much as you want to talk about ww2 planes.

[MatchstiK]

It's a gorgeous car, with a solid modern engine. They already announced a FA20T for the leggy so it should only be a matter of time before we see a boosted version.

The CG is right, the dimensions are right, the weight is meh but way better than most new cars. Gets glowing reviews from journalists and normal drivers alike.

Maybe I'm sheltered here but what sub $30k coupe do you suggest I look at instead? You can't buy a 2013 S2000 at a dealership.

[koalorka]

LOL, 164 whp @ 1250 kgs:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2335520

Yeah... yeah... Nah.

But I see how this would appeal to the energy drink and Facebook crowd.

For $30,000 I could have a professionally-built Group-N rally car on the GC8 chassis that would simply devour any road-going car up to $100,000.

[FtGF]

Meh tons of shops have already dynoed it. Makes the same whp as an 02 wrx at 500-600lbs lighter with a better chassis. And no you cannot have a group N rally car built for 30gs that even be remotely fast. FIA group N rally actually allows more mods the people think and that cost $$$. Prodrives group N cars start at around $120,000 top end of the scale for sure but it gives you an idea that's it not cheap to have something fast. Anyways lots of your budget will go to safety requirements.

BRZ rules!

[Braden]

Might want to check out your weight specs.. Bugeye wrx sedan is 3050 and brz is 2750. 300lb difference. *yawn* still slow and no real power potential other than a crazy expensive n/a build or boost. Might as well start off with a 2.5rs. That way you can save yourself $30,000.

[koalorka]

better chassis.

Oh? Do you have access to stress analysis data from Subaru by any chance? Are you able to interpret this data? Would you care to share your findings?

I thought this type of information was proprietary, it's bizarre that Subaru would publish something like that.

The chassis is shared with the new 2012 low-budget Impreza BTW.

[FtGF]

^Tons of info on it read up and the GC chassis is well known to be soft anything is better then it. Until Wikipedia butchered their STI article they had a good link to the chassis stiffness difference from the GC to GD which was significant and the BRZ is supposed be even better.
Where is the info on the shared chassis? Never heard that and I bet thats totally wrong. And I might add you are a douchebag that only ever personally attacks. You would fit right in on Nasioc. You ain't as smart as you think you are. Trying addressing the comment and not the poster for once with your veiled insults.

And yes B you are right I was think GD STIs which are heavier. Still and awesome sports car up the power and everyone can stop crying....................
Also B some people only ever buy new. Not everyone out there are 15 year old car shoppers like we are. Anyways like it or not its popular I see at least 3 everyday.